HockeyBuzz Hotstove: The Hotstove: Who Wins the Norris Trophy?

Time for Weber

I think voters are confusing who wins vs. who they think should win. Weber Wins, Karlsson 2nd.

The Norris Trophy is a lot like Gold Glove in baseball.... a player is usually deserving of it before he actually wins it, and it often takes a few tries to unseat someone more established.

People forget that it Lidstrom -- Mr. Norris Trophy himself -- did not win the first of his 7 Norris awards until the 2000-01 season (his 10th season in the NHL) and was frequently a runner-up before then.

After being runner up last year, I think Weber wins it this year. Karlsson will be in the running for years to come, and may even it win it next season with a similar performance to this year, but I think Weber takes it this year.

Voting wise, I think it will play out that Weber will win over Karlsson not on 1st place votes but on SECOND place votes. I think Weber will be 2nd or 1st on almost every ballot while a few voters will (unjustifiably) leave Karlsson out their top three because of "doesn't kill penalties," "defensively average", "a lot more assists than Weber but same # of goals" argument.

I think voters are confusing who wins vs. who they think should win. Weber Wins, Karlsson 2nd.
- Puckers

But the headline still is : "Who wins it". No "who will", or "who should win it". So we basically can answer it the way we want to And I want Karlsson to win it !

But the headline still is : "Who wins it". No "who will", or "who should win it". So we basically can answer it the way we want to And I want Karlsson to win it !
- MightyPee

So do I, lol.

The Norris Trophy is a lot like Gold Glove in baseball.... a player is usually deserving of it before he actually wins it, and it often takes a few tries to unseat someone more established.

People forget that it Lidstrom -- Mr. Norris Trophy himself -- did not win the first of his 7 Norris awards until the 2000-01 season (his 10th season in the NHL) and was frequently a runner-up before then.

After being runner up last year, I think Weber wins it this year. Karlsson will be in the running for years to come, and may even it win it next season with a similar performance to this year, but I think Weber takes it this year.

Voting wise, I think it will play out that Weber will win over Karlsson not on 1st place votes but on SECOND place votes. I think Weber will be 2nd or 1st on almost every ballot while a few voters will (unjustifiably) leave Karlsson out their top three because of "doesn't kill penalties," "defensively average", "a lot more assists than Weber but same # of goals" argument.
- bmeltzer

Karlsson only has all those assists based on on that incredible offensive talent the Sens boast on our top 3 lines potting goals. You take away all of that high end, consistent goal scoring depth we have and you'd see a serious hit in Karlsson's production.
/sarcasm

Karlsson only has all those assists based on on that incredible offensive talent the Sens boast on our top 3 lines potting goals. You take away all of that high end, consistent goal scoring depth we have and you'd see a serious hit in Karlsson's production.
/sarcasm
- Lohaus

Bill is right though, we know it's the media who votes and we know what sort of dolts comprise that group, so I would expect a lot of them (especiallt Toronto based) to leave Karlsson off the ballot entirely.

Bill is right though, we know it's the media who votes and we know what sort of dolts comprise that group, so I would expect a lot of them (especiallt Toronto based) to leave Karlsson off the ballot entirely.
- TommyDeVito

I know Bill is just pointing out why it'll happen, I'm just pointing out why it is a ridiculous stand to take.

HockeyBuzz Hotstove: The Hotstove: Who Wins the Norris Trophy?
- Travis.Yost

karlsson is gonna win.

Karlsson.

Weber will win, easily.

Karlsson should win, easily.

Bill is right though, we know it's the media who votes and we know what sort of dolts comprise that group, so I would expect a lot of them (especiallt Toronto based) to leave Karlsson off the ballot entirely.
- TommyDeVito

Why is the media voting?

I'd prefer to see the PA voting or the Gm's.

Dion Fanewf.

Why is the media voting?

I'd prefer to see the PA voting or the Gm's.
- Lahey

Players voting is no less a popularity contest than sports writers doing it. Do you honestly see any Penguins players voting for a Flyers player, or vice versa?

Weber should win it, and deserves to win it. Best d-man in the game. Karlsson can win it when he starts playing on the penalty kill.

Karlsson only has all those assists based on on that incredible offensive talent the Sens boast on our top 3 lines potting goals. You take away all of that high end, consistent goal scoring depth we have and you'd see a serious hit in Karlsson's production.
/sarcasm
- Lohaus

What you said is the truth. Karlsson got a lot of his points because of Spezza who finished in the top 10 of scoring too. Weber had no teammate even close to the top 20 in scoring. Karlsson is Mike Green version 2, only Green actually scored 31 goals(which is harder to do then what Karlsson did), and he killed penalties.

Weber will probably win. He deserves it no doubt. I think Karlsson has reinvented the position this year though. You rarely see that with a defensman. But as some people have said, you have to pay your dues. Lidstrom waited about 10 years before his first Norris, Weber has been nominated several times, just to fall short. Karlsson will get his eventually.

It's not really on this thread, but in general, I hear the argument of "who would you rather have" for the Norris debate. This is totally the incorrect logic. It should be "who had the best season, as a defenseman." Once people understand that, the debate is pretty darn tight between Weber and Karlsson.

I also do agree that letting writers vote is sort of ridiculous. I really think their should be some kind of committee, similar to Hockey Hall of Fame inductions, to create more legitimacy for these awards. The fact Bruce Garrioch, other Sun media, Damien Cox, and other bums get to vote is crazy. There are legit writers out there, whose vote would be significant. It's just their vote gets outnumbered by the morons.

The fact that Karlsson was nominated over Pietrangelo just makes the league look like more of the joke than it already is. Karlsson is great offensively, but that's about it. He gets manhandled in his own end. I guess being the best defenseman on the best defensive team doesn't get you much when the media doesn't kiss your a$$.

Weber should win it, and deserves to win it. Best d-man in the game. Karlsson can win it when he starts playing on the penalty kill.
- Allstarzz

I don't get your argument about Karlsson. So not playing on the penalty kill (even though he did) outweighs everything else at which he was amazing?

The fact that Karlsson was nominated over Pietrangelo just makes the league look like more of the joke than it already is. Karlsson is great offensively, but that's about it. He gets manhandled in his own end. I guess being the best defenseman on the best defensive team doesn't get you much when the media doesn't kiss your a$$.
- All Blues

I agree Pietrangelo should probably have gotten a nod. I think over Chara personally.

However, you need to actually need to watch some Sens games. Karlsson does not get "manhandled" in his own end. Deserves a nomination for sure.

I agree Pietrangelo should probably have gotten a nod. I think over Chara personally.

However, you need to actually need to watch some Sens games. Karlsson does not get "manhandled" in his own end. Deserves a nomination for sure.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Maybe you're right. I watch a lot of hockey, but I didn't watch too much of Ottawa this year. I wasn't overly impressed with his defensive play in the games I did watch. From what I've read, he isn't on the PK; is this true? That's the signature of a d'man right there.

It should go to Weber for sure.

It should go to Weber for sure.
- atc

Man I hope he leaves the central this summer.

Maybe you're right. I watch a lot of hockey, but I didn't watch too much of Ottawa this year. I wasn't overly impressed with his defensive play in the games I did watch. From what I've read, he isn't on the PK; is this true? That's the signature of a d'man right there.
- All Blues

He is only put on the PK if it's set to expire, because he is such a dynamic player 5 on 5. So he'll be out there for the last 30 seconds or so, if that. No he doesn't play the PK like Weber, Chara, and Petriangelo, but if he was, he'd be playing 40 minutes a night. You have to play your best players where they will benefit your team the most. Should he play the PK to sacrifice points, just to prove his pundits wrong? I guess he could, but Paul Mclean didn't feel that way. As I said earlier in the thread, he reinvented the position this year. I suspect you will see him on the PK more frequently as his career progresses, but he still won't play it as much as the Webers and Charas, so I guess his pundits will never be satisfied, even when he is two times the puck mover as those two.

To be clear, I think Weber is winning the Norris. But Karlsson defiantly deserves a nomination. You can't ignore the numbers he put up.